HELLO RELIGIOUS PEOPLE! I have an honest question for you.

[Russtronic™]

Are you speaking as an American there?

I don't agree with the premise just see it as the way it is. Not just the US look at Russia and now even China.

[Xerxys]

why is it always personified? you know, the benevolent creator god and all..

I toy with the idea that there is a force or system, similar to those we know about (like weather and nature) that just operates on a higher plane that we can really grasp. I mean, maybe it's perfectly natural for all of the "coincidences" that religious people find. Maybe it's our perspective of time that screws it all up for us. If everything that ever existed does so simultaneously, then perhaps we can affect things that are not apparently cause and effect, thus miracles are just normal interactions that we can't follow.

Or maybe it's a matter of scale? I mean to ants, we have to seem like god. And they have no idea that one god that walks by is not the same as the next 'god' to walk by. Maybe our entire planet is just an atom or something in a bigger system, whose rules we follow without realizing it even exists... Then it gets scary, what happens when our atom gets knocked off the table? would we necessarily even have to know about it?

Maybe there are people living on our atoms!
Maybe we're a science experiment for a snot nosed 5th grade superior being?

Is there really any conclusive way to know for sure, about anything?
I think that not knowing is what makes it fun! If I had all the answers, I'd be bored as hell!

Y'know, despite my inability to answer any of your questions, I sincerely believe that the answer is far less remarkable than anyone could possibly imagine. In fact, it is incredibly underwhelming and over saturated with mind numbing details, we psychologically reject these mundane explanations of the universe in exchange for the "exciting" versions in order to keep ourselves entertained.

But that's just my belief. It's subject to change though ...

[wolviex]

Y'know, despite my inability to answer any of your questions, I sincerely believe that the answer is far less remarkable than anyone could possibly imagine. In fact, it is incredibly underwhelming and over saturated with mind numbing details, we psychologically reject these mundane explanations of the universe in exchange for the "exciting" versions in order to keep ourselves entertained.

But that's just my belief. It's subject to change though ...

Of course, this is assuming there is an answer. There is always the solution that there is no answer, that there is even a question is entirely in our heads. We are after all trained to recognize patterns, even when they aren't really there (think of the "face" on mars).

Subject to change though. That's the right answer.
I completely accept that my understanding is at best, limited. So what theories I may have will remain as such. Theories.

[zampaz]

As we remain curious and skeptical we will continue to learn and expand our understanding.
The most important kind of skepticism is regarding our own results or opinions. This in turn leaves us open minded. Our most important scientific tool is our imagination, because it is imagination applied to our observations that forms the basis of hypothesis which gives birth to experimentation.
As a species we have barely put down our charred sticks for writing on cave walls and we are just now knocking on the door of knowledge. We are just now developing the ability to communicate with each other rapidly and imagine tools to investigate the undiscovered countries of N dimensions.
We don't know how many dimensions there are. We do know that adding extra dimensions to certain models in physics allows for the explanation of certain observed results.
WolvieX mentioned the dimension we call time. Suppose there were a dimension perpendicular to time. How would it be possible to make observations and measurements in that dimension?
But the really important question is the cave art. All the hunts depicted -guys with spears and water buffalo...how come there isn't any cave Banned?
It's not what we know that counts, it's what we're willing to imagine and then to go find out that counts.

[Russtronic™]

This is Russ's computer writing to you as when he read Zampaz's post

Suppose there were a dimension perpendicular to time. How would it be possible to make observations and measurements in that dimension?

His head EXPLODED!!!!! I am very upset as you all messed up ME! With all this gore hardening what am I to do?

[wolviex]

Suppose there were a dimension perpendicular to time. How would it be possible to make observations and measurements in that dimension?

Awesome post Z, I love it! Perpendicular to time would have to be alternate timelines would it not? Multiple dimensions where things have gone slightly(?) different. Same time, different reality.
Really, these speculations just lead to more and more questions.. Though that's why I enjoy it so much =)

So what kind of beings would see this perpendicular time? Would they move within that dimension as we do in space, or would they be carried along it as we are time? If they are carried along does it really look any different from what we call time? If they can move through it as we do space, what might a 3rd dimension of time look like?

Would we be able to interact with them or even perceive them?

and to get back on track:
If such a being exists, would we call it god?

oh, and some cave art Banned:

it's thought that this is supposed to represent a vulva from the paleolithic period(check wikipedia page for vulva :P)

[Russtronic™]

It will not let me post my views.. That is SCARY!!!

[Xerxys]

Maybe religion exists so that people can know the answer to the one and true question. What is more important?

[Starfox]

Well in that case its clearly Christianity, because well bacon is awesome, Bacon doesnt argue with you. Bacon will always be there when you want it. Ive never been married but multiple wives seems like a chore.

[Russtronic™]

That is exactly it! There is no way to explain Infinity......... Things that Can't be grasped by our tiny little brains(And they are HUGE by Earths standards) that's right by an infinite Universe our brains are nothing....
No matter who you ask they will say Humans are at the top of the food chain... Nope Greed is Greed is an elemental force like the rest, Love, Hate, Sorrow, Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Solar Flares....

[Russtronic™]

Anything that affects people 1 or a billion is a force of--Nature? So who's to say they are not Alive? What is an Ant's life span to us? A Fly's? Now who's to say that a Raindrop is not a living thing, and in the 2 to 6 minutes of it's life span, that it has not lived a 1000 years it's time? The same with Elemental Emotions...

As I said everything is alive, EVERYTHING! Now our tiny little brains can't grasp that, So we Blame it on GOD, he or she will know what to do about it.....

Now call me crazy for saying these thing's I have never shared with others. These are just the Musing's of a broken old man.

[Russtronic™]

Now tell me why that wouldn't post as 1 message!

[r!co]

I feel that the human species in general are often full of ourselves, we want to believe and feel like we are significant, that our lives have an ultimate meaning, we all in some ways want to feel important.

I often feel like we as a species don't realize how insignificant we really are to the big picture after all we are just another organism growing on a rock orbiting a star which is orbiting our galaxy which is being hurled through space.

Maybe just maybe our realities do actually fit in somewhere in the "grand scheme" of things maybe we do serve an ultimate purpose, but...
what if actually we don't? what if we actually are just a product of coincidence and the right mixture of the right elements? in the right place at the right time? and everything else is all in our heads.

[zampaz]

How would a science type answer r!co's questions:

what if we actually are just a product of coincidence and the right mixture of the right elements? in the right place at the right time? and everything else is all in our heads.

As far as we "know" we are the evolved product of coincidence -the right mixture of elements in the right place at the right time under the right conditions.

I often feel like we as a species don't realize how insignificant we really are to the big picture after all we are just another organism growing on a rock orbiting a star which is orbiting our galaxy which is being hurled through space.

The significance of our being is manifest in our ability to question our significance.
Cats don't question the significance of their being, they know it.
Among other things what distinguishes my abilities from that of my cat is my ability to communicate abstract ideas to other humans, to use language, to share my imagination.

<snip>maybe we do serve an ultimate purpose, but...what if actually we don't?

Ah, what is the purpose of life?
What is meant by purpose?
purpose:
Noun:
The reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.
-----
Let's put our "blinded by science" shades on and take a look at science and non-science questions.
Science seeks to answer questions which are based upon observations, there is no "why?" because the observations are objective.
We hypothesize; "How is this possible?" and seek answers that are repeatable and require no justification.
-----
So instead of asking "what is the purpose of life?" we can look at one untested observation on the result of life;
Through a relentless mechanical process of elimination, genetic evolution has been favorable
to genes carrying information most suitable to the survival and success of a species.
The result has been that the quality and complexity of information stored over time has
increased.
-----
Through randomness we are here to ask questions that we can answer, share with other humans in recorded language and perpetuate our knowledge from generation to generation.
----
So obviously the purpose of life is to study science, obtain more information about our universe and to post more links to content.

[zampaz]

Awesome post Z, I love it! Perpendicular to time would have to be alternate timelines would it not? Multiple dimensions where things have gone slightly(?) different. Same time, different reality.
Really, these speculations just lead to more and more questions.. Though that's why I enjoy it so much =)

So what kind of beings would see this perpendicular time? Would they move within that dimension as we do in space, or would they be carried along it as we are time? If they are carried along does it really look any different from what we call time? If they can move through it as we do space, what might a 3rd dimension of time look like?

Would we be able to interact with them or even perceive them?

and to get back on track:
If such a being exists, would we call it god?

oh, and some cave art Banned:

it's thought that this is supposed to represent a vulva from the paleolithic period(check wikipedia page for vulva :P)

You can't fool me Wolviex; everybody knows that's an image of a blind alien sipping through a straw.
It's postulated that certain quantum events we observe in the 3 spatial dimensions and single time dimension are projections into our dimension from other dimensions.

Other dimensions don't necessarily equate to alternate universes.
In order to be perceived in the N dimensions of our known universe an event would have to occur within "the plane" of our detector and during a measurable period of time...
in quantum physics we are told by the Heisenberg uncertainty principle that we could
know the position of a particle, or its velocity but never both at the same time.
But I don't want to spoil any fun, plenty of models support multiple universe theories. Within the bounds of science, speculation can be great fun, and make for good sci-fi too. When you take the science out of science fiction you are left with weeping children who cry out in terror and fury; "Mommy; it's bad science, take it away!"
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation