is downloading illegal ?

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truthseeker
meh
Posts: 5

is downloading illegal ?

Post#1 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:29 am

I guess this isnt a tech issue but i have a question anyway .....is icefilms or downloading the movies and tv that we download actually illegal or is it in a murky grey area ...i have tried to look it up but cant find any real answers ????


iargue
Average User
Posts: 59

Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#2 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:54 am

Simply put. Yes

When you download or watch a video from icefilms, you are breaking the copyright that they have on it. You are liable for it and can get in trouble.

Icefilms lies in a gray area though. Icefilms itself doesn't host any files, it just provides us a link to those files. This makes it much harder for anyone to sue or take down the site, as they don't host any illegal content. Its kinda a very light grey area, but it still exists.

You however, are not protected by this grey area. If they magically find our your doing this, you are screwed.

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gogmorgo
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Posts: 100

Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#3 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:55 am

It is a bit of an incredibly grey area, and the shades of grey depend on what country you live in.
It is illegal to upload pretty much everywhere. That one's a given, since you're publishing someone else's content without their permission. Copyright expires (in the US) after 50 years (and 70 most other places) so most of the old monochrome films on here are up here totally legitimately. Downloading them is totally legal. Come to think of it, that means that the first Bond movie's copyright (as released in the US) is going to expire in a little over a year (laugh)

The grey areas are where downloading is concerned. Strictly speaking, the downloader is not the one violating the copyright, because he's not creating the file. But the file is still being reproduced (at least temporarily) onto his computer, so well... yeah. You can argue that since the file was uploaded, you assume it was done so legally (because in most cases there's nothing to suggest that there's no way it could be legal) but then you're into the whole counterfeit purse scenario.
The laws as they are do not always entirely cover digital media, and that's where most of the clarity problems arise. As far as providing a definite answer, though, the no it's not legal's that come out are far less murky than the yes it is legal's.

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gspat
Oh my Santa!
Posts: 2530

Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#4 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:46 pm

Well, when it comes right down to it, uploading is illegal, unless it's public domain.

Downloading is less illegal and actually completely legal in some jurisdictions, but streaming is the closest to legal you will get, because you are not storing the file (it's automatically destroyed after use).

Most (if not all) legal implications come from either uploading or storing the file.
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M_Carter
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Posts: 55

Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#5 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:50 pm

fuck that...there should be ABSOLUTELY no regulating the internet.

people should do everything to deem the government's efforts useless and forcing them to give up on their futile attempts to regulate and control the internet.

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Russtronic™
Jeddak
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Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#6 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:56 pm

This will not happen till we all stand together! (flex) Viva the Internet!
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Stan
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Posts: 231

Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#7 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:36 pm

so if i stream nothing will happen to me?

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gspat
Oh my Santa!
Posts: 2530

Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#8 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:40 pm

I'm just saying it's the least likely to get you in trouble, because you are automatically deleting the file once you are done with it.
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gogmorgo
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Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#9 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:37 am

That's not to say that it's legal to stream. As far as anyone looking at you down the other end of the tube is concerned, there is no difference at all. It's only what your computer does with it after it gets it.

The copyright laws that affect it are the ones that were enacted during the 70's or whenever, when Hollywood was complaining about people recording the shows and stuff. They also come up with the whole DVR'ing thing. Basically, you're allowed to record what's on TV, and then copy that for your own personal use. You can create copies to prevent loss or damage. So as far as that is concerned, there is no problem with recording a file onto your computer off the TV. There's also no problem saving it to a backup HD or even backing it up to a cloud service like MU.
The grey area, though, is that the laws prevent you from distributing the copies you make (duh). However, when you upload something, you've created a backup copy for yourself. Someone else downloads that copy. Is that distributing? No, you haven't given them anything, because they've had to create a new copy on their own device. But there's no other way to transfer a file from one device to another without going through that process at some point, even if you destroy the original. So then are you actually distributing? You're certainly making it available for them to create a copy... but then is it your fault for making it available, or theirs for taking it? It's not stealing since they made a copy, but that makes it copyright infringement. But since there's no other way to transfer files, are you taking something that was distributed to you? And so on and so forth.

The straight up answer is yes, it's illegal to both upload and download, but there are loopholes that excuse both, but close themselves up when you use them. And it's pretty easy to find out where a file was copied, but harder to prove that it was copied if the copy no longer exists. They also need to prove that the person who uploaded did so intending to distribute... or do they? Negligence of the laws or your own actions are not excuses for them.
There's no absolute, 100% surefire guarantee that nothing will happen to you unless you simply just don't do it.


Stan
Heart on for IceFlims
Posts: 231

Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#10 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:02 am

guess im going to jail then because way before i discovered IF i was viewing videos directly off megavideo and somtimes even downloaded videos so i can watch it later with my family.


serviced332
Average User
Posts: 25

Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#11 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:43 am

i don't think the founding fathers of America would like what its government is doing now. next step is gonna be bar code tattoo at birth.

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gogmorgo
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Posts: 100

Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#12 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:37 pm

Stan wrote:guess im going to jail then because way before i discovered IF i was viewing videos directly off megavideo and somtimes even downloaded videos so i can watch it later with my family.


Well, jail time I think is unlikely, if you were to get caught, which is also not 100% guaranteed that you will be. Mostly it's just a fine or making you pay them back for what you got. But unless you've gone nuts on it, and have seriously cost them a lot you're less likely to get caught. The copyright holders aren't likely to go after you unless they can get enough to cover their legal fees. But like speeding 10mph over isn't likely to net you a ticket, or even get you pulled over, it's still not legal and you never know what kind of day the cop's had. Some might get away with 20 mph over, and others might get a ticket for 5.
There are legal ways to download stuff (eg. iTunes, Netflix, etc.) too, but usually you need to pay for it.

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freestylegreek
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Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#13 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:48 pm

Sooner or later you will need to pay for everything including checking for email.


Frankiestine
Average User
Posts: 37

Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#14 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:25 pm

truthseeker wrote:I guess this isnt a tech issue but i have a question anyway .....is icefilms or downloading the movies and tv that we download actually illegal or is it in a murky grey area ...i have tried to look it up but cant find any real answers ????

Download yes without a doubt if the materials you had downloaded has been copyright. But then legally if we are watching via streaming, that is a grey area. To quote an analogue, you are a passerby coming across a incident, you stand aside to watch the precedings, so does that make you liable or obligated to report it? Furthermore what IF is doing is only providing a link not hosting it, I don't think that constitutes a crime, well not yet perhaps till the day the Americans decides to change how the internet operates and bullied the world into following their rules.


tspoon
meh
Posts: 12

Re: is downloading illegal ?

Post#15 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:57 pm

Honestly, what goes down on the internet really doesn't affect Hollywood that much.

They make more $$ every year (partly by raising prices on movie tickets), and that is a big sum of money. It is just being greedy at this point to try to censor the internet.

Couple more quick points re: internet piracy.
#1. It can actually strongly benefit a TV show. Shows can be 'discovered' on a site like ice films by many users, who love it, tell their friends about it, and once caught up on the show (which can ONLY be done on a site like ice films) watch it live, contributing to the overall viewership.

#2. Hollywood is so fucking far behind on the technology/web scene its absurd. There are MANY 'illegal' services around, like megaupload, letmewatchthis, ice films? etc. that DO NOT HAVE A LEGAL COMPETITOR. I don't think Hollywood has a right to complain about internet piracy, when they have nothing to counter with for the consumer. If Hollywood built a site like Ice, meaning a full catalogue from all networks, available to stream or download, for a reasonable fee +/- commercials, I would agree with their pissyness re: internet piracy. The fact is, at the moment its the illegal way or no way at all.

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